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RFK Jr. accused senators of making things up as they made factual points on vaccines.
Health and Human Services Secretary Robert Kennedy Jr. testifies before the Senate Finance Committee at the Dirksen Senate Office Building on September 4, 2025 in Washington, DC. Credit: Getty | Andrew Harnik
US health secretary and ardent anti-vaccine activist Robert F. Kennedy Jr. went before the Senate Finance Committee on Thursday amid turmoil at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and widespread chaos over access to COVID-19 vaccines.
In the combative three-hour hearing, Kennedy defended his dramatic firing of the CDC director last week, less than a month after her confirmation, which he effusively supported. Today, he repeatedly called her a liar and made the extraordinary claim that she openly confessed to him that she cannot be trusted. Kennedy went on to reiterate the dangerous claim that the CDC is corrupt. That's despite calls from agency staff for Kennedy to tone down such rhetoric after a gunman—who was influenced by vaccine misinformation and the vilification of the public health agency—sprayed the CDC campus with over 500 rounds and killed a local police officer last month.
Regarding vaccines, particularly COVID-19 vaccines, Kennedy made his usual anti-vaccine talking points. He gave the tired refrain that all the medical, pediatrics, infectious disease, and public health experts who disagree with his views and support existing vaccines do so simply because they have been bought off by the pharmaceutical industry. He repeatedly falsely claimed that his actions as secretary have not restricted access to COVID-19 vaccines, despite the fact that he directly restricted access to COVID-19 vaccines. People, including cancer patients, are currently being denied access to the vaccines in multiple states due to the restrictions.
Kennedy's actions as secretary and his responses today drew criticism from both Republicans and Democrats, and multiple lawmakers have called for him to resign. But Kennedy seemed undeterred from carrying out his anti-vaccine agenda as the country's top health official. Just yesterday, news broke that Kennedy is working to install seven new people to the CDC's vaccine advisory committee, many of whom are also against vaccines. The seven new members would join the other seven new anti-vaccine members Kennedy already hand-selected for the committee, which was left vacant after he fired all 17 highly respected and thoroughly vetted experts from the committee in June.
Here are some key moments from today's hearing:
Untrustworthy
With the fallout ongoing from the abrupt ouster of CDC Director Susan Monarez last week, many senators focused on what led to her downfall. In a Wall Street Journal op-ed published two hours before the hearing, Monarez confirmed media reports that she had been fired by Kennedy for refusing to rubber-stamp changes to CDC vaccine guidance based on recommendations from Kennedy's hand-selected advisors.
"I was told to preapprove the recommendations of a vaccine advisory panel newly filled with people who have publicly expressed antivaccine rhetoric," Monarez wrote in the op-ed. She said she refused, insisting that the panel's recommendations be "rigorously and scientifically reviewed before being accepted or rejected."
In today's hearing, Senators directly confronted Kennedy with that statement from the op-ed. Kennedy repeatedly said that she is lying and that he never directed her to preapprove vaccine recommendations. Instead, he claims, he told her to resign after he asked her directly if she was a trustworthy person, and she replied, 'No."
After several exchanges about this with other senators, Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) picked it apart further, saying:
"Are you telling us that the former head of CDC went to you, you asked her, 'Are you a trustworthy person?' And she said, 'No, I am not a trustworthy person,'" Sanders asked.
"She didn't say 'No, I'm not a trustworthy person,'" Kennedy replied. "She said, 'No.' I'm giving a quote."
After that, Sen. Thom Tillis (R-NC), who seemed skeptical of Kennedy's arguments generally, pointed out the absurdity of the claim, quoting Kennedy's previous praise of Monarez. "I don't see how you go—over four weeks—from a public health expert with 'unimpeachable scientific credentials,' a longtime champion of MAHA values, caring and compassionate and brilliant microbiologists, and four weeks later fire her," Tillis said. "As somebody who advised executives on hiring strategies, number one, I would suggest in the interview you ask 'em if they're truthful rather than four weeks after we took the time of the US Senate to confirm the person."
“Denying people vaccine”
Kennedy's clear anti-vaccine views, statements, actions, and agenda were repeatedly raised in the hearing, particularly amid the current chaos around access to this season's COVID-19 vaccines.
Sen. Bill Cassidy (R-La.), who cast a key vote for Kennedy's confirmation, noted that conservative talk radio host Erick Erickson has publicly reported that his wife, who has stage 4 lung cancer, was denied a COVID-19 vaccine from CVS due to the "current mess" at the Department of Health and Human Services.
Cassidy also read an email from a friend, who is a physician, saying: "We're all confused and concerned about who could get the COVID vaccine. We are having our attorney try and render an opinion, but there's no firm guidance and [we're] concerned about liability if vaccines are given to a patient requested but not on the current CDC list. Pharmacists are requiring a prescription now even for patients over 65, creating a huge headache."
Cassidy summarized by saying: "effectively we're denying people vaccine."
Kennedy replied: "You're wrong."
“A kind of confession”
Kennedy continued through the hearing to claim that he had not limited access to COVID-19 vaccines. Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) noted that Kennedy had previously told lawmakers that "if vaccines are working for somebody, I'm not going to take them away." But Warren pushed the fact that he had taken them away.
"I'm not taking them away from people, senator," Kennedy responded.
"It takes it away if you can't get it from your pharmacist," Warren replied.
After a back-and-forth, Kennedy acknowledged that access "depends on the state," as different states have different rules for when pharmacists can provide vaccines.
Sen. Maggie Hassan (D-NH), meanwhile, hammered Kennedy for unilaterally changing COVID-19 vaccine recommendations without providing scientific evidence to explain the move—a move which scientific evidence does not, in fact, support. Hassan went on to note that since the Food and Drug Administration altered the labels of COVID-19 vaccines to match Kennedy's recommendations—an unprecedented move—it means that doctors and pharmacists now need to provide the vaccine "off-label" if they give it to any healthy children or adults under age 65. This is one of the key points causing uncertainty about access.
"When have you produced the data that you relied on and that this FDA relied on to change those parameters? You did it behind doors," Hassan pressed.
"You're just making stuff up, senator," Kennedy replied.
Hassan noted that nothing she said was made up, adding: "Sometimes when you make an accusation, it's kind of a confession, Mr. Kennedy."
“A charlatan”
Beyond COVID-19 vaccines, lawmakers criticized Kennedy's anti-vaccine moves generally. Sen. John Barrasso (R-Wyo.), a physician and supporter of vaccination, began his comments by noting that George Washington ordered his troops to be vaccinated against smallpox during the Revolutionary War, allowing the nation to continue fighting and win its independence.
"I'm a doctor; vaccines work," Barrasso said. "Secretary Kennedy, in your confirmation hearings, you promised to uphold the highest standards for vaccines. Since then, I've grown deeply concerned." He cited the measles outbreak, the firing of the CDC director, and the attack by the administration on mRNA vaccine technology.
Sen. Maria Cantwell (D-Wash.) took particular aim at Kennedy's unilateral decision to cancel $500 million in funding for mRNA vaccine research, which was intended to prepare the country for future pandemic viruses. The funding cancellation was widely decried by scientific and public health experts.
"You've made a statement here today in your testimony that you would follow science, and yet you're not following science," Cantwell said.
"You're so wrong on your facts," Kennedy replied.
"You're a charlatan. That's what you are," Cantwell shot back.
Health and Human Services Secretary Robert Kennedy Jr. testifies before the Senate Finance Committee at the Dirksen Senate Office Building on September 4, 2025 in Washington, DC. Credit: Getty | Andrew Harnik
US health secretary and ardent anti-vaccine activist Robert F. Kennedy Jr. went before the Senate Finance Committee on Thursday amid turmoil at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and widespread chaos over access to COVID-19 vaccines.
In the combative three-hour hearing, Kennedy defended his dramatic firing of the CDC director last week, less than a month after her confirmation, which he effusively supported. Today, he repeatedly called her a liar and made the extraordinary claim that she openly confessed to him that she cannot be trusted. Kennedy went on to reiterate the dangerous claim that the CDC is corrupt. That's despite calls from agency staff for Kennedy to tone down such rhetoric after a gunman—who was influenced by vaccine misinformation and the vilification of the public health agency—sprayed the CDC campus with over 500 rounds and killed a local police officer last month.
Regarding vaccines, particularly COVID-19 vaccines, Kennedy made his usual anti-vaccine talking points. He gave the tired refrain that all the medical, pediatrics, infectious disease, and public health experts who disagree with his views and support existing vaccines do so simply because they have been bought off by the pharmaceutical industry. He repeatedly falsely claimed that his actions as secretary have not restricted access to COVID-19 vaccines, despite the fact that he directly restricted access to COVID-19 vaccines. People, including cancer patients, are currently being denied access to the vaccines in multiple states due to the restrictions.
Kennedy's actions as secretary and his responses today drew criticism from both Republicans and Democrats, and multiple lawmakers have called for him to resign. But Kennedy seemed undeterred from carrying out his anti-vaccine agenda as the country's top health official. Just yesterday, news broke that Kennedy is working to install seven new people to the CDC's vaccine advisory committee, many of whom are also against vaccines. The seven new members would join the other seven new anti-vaccine members Kennedy already hand-selected for the committee, which was left vacant after he fired all 17 highly respected and thoroughly vetted experts from the committee in June.
Here are some key moments from today's hearing:
Untrustworthy
With the fallout ongoing from the abrupt ouster of CDC Director Susan Monarez last week, many senators focused on what led to her downfall. In a Wall Street Journal op-ed published two hours before the hearing, Monarez confirmed media reports that she had been fired by Kennedy for refusing to rubber-stamp changes to CDC vaccine guidance based on recommendations from Kennedy's hand-selected advisors.
"I was told to preapprove the recommendations of a vaccine advisory panel newly filled with people who have publicly expressed antivaccine rhetoric," Monarez wrote in the op-ed. She said she refused, insisting that the panel's recommendations be "rigorously and scientifically reviewed before being accepted or rejected."
In today's hearing, Senators directly confronted Kennedy with that statement from the op-ed. Kennedy repeatedly said that she is lying and that he never directed her to preapprove vaccine recommendations. Instead, he claims, he told her to resign after he asked her directly if she was a trustworthy person, and she replied, 'No."
After several exchanges about this with other senators, Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) picked it apart further, saying:
"Are you telling us that the former head of CDC went to you, you asked her, 'Are you a trustworthy person?' And she said, 'No, I am not a trustworthy person,'" Sanders asked.
"She didn't say 'No, I'm not a trustworthy person,'" Kennedy replied. "She said, 'No.' I'm giving a quote."
After that, Sen. Thom Tillis (R-NC), who seemed skeptical of Kennedy's arguments generally, pointed out the absurdity of the claim, quoting Kennedy's previous praise of Monarez. "I don't see how you go—over four weeks—from a public health expert with 'unimpeachable scientific credentials,' a longtime champion of MAHA values, caring and compassionate and brilliant microbiologists, and four weeks later fire her," Tillis said. "As somebody who advised executives on hiring strategies, number one, I would suggest in the interview you ask 'em if they're truthful rather than four weeks after we took the time of the US Senate to confirm the person."
“Denying people vaccine”
Kennedy's clear anti-vaccine views, statements, actions, and agenda were repeatedly raised in the hearing, particularly amid the current chaos around access to this season's COVID-19 vaccines.
Sen. Bill Cassidy (R-La.), who cast a key vote for Kennedy's confirmation, noted that conservative talk radio host Erick Erickson has publicly reported that his wife, who has stage 4 lung cancer, was denied a COVID-19 vaccine from CVS due to the "current mess" at the Department of Health and Human Services.
Cassidy also read an email from a friend, who is a physician, saying: "We're all confused and concerned about who could get the COVID vaccine. We are having our attorney try and render an opinion, but there's no firm guidance and [we're] concerned about liability if vaccines are given to a patient requested but not on the current CDC list. Pharmacists are requiring a prescription now even for patients over 65, creating a huge headache."
Cassidy summarized by saying: "effectively we're denying people vaccine."
Kennedy replied: "You're wrong."
“A kind of confession”
Kennedy continued through the hearing to claim that he had not limited access to COVID-19 vaccines. Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) noted that Kennedy had previously told lawmakers that "if vaccines are working for somebody, I'm not going to take them away." But Warren pushed the fact that he had taken them away.
"I'm not taking them away from people, senator," Kennedy responded.
"It takes it away if you can't get it from your pharmacist," Warren replied.
After a back-and-forth, Kennedy acknowledged that access "depends on the state," as different states have different rules for when pharmacists can provide vaccines.
Sen. Maggie Hassan (D-NH), meanwhile, hammered Kennedy for unilaterally changing COVID-19 vaccine recommendations without providing scientific evidence to explain the move—a move which scientific evidence does not, in fact, support. Hassan went on to note that since the Food and Drug Administration altered the labels of COVID-19 vaccines to match Kennedy's recommendations—an unprecedented move—it means that doctors and pharmacists now need to provide the vaccine "off-label" if they give it to any healthy children or adults under age 65. This is one of the key points causing uncertainty about access.
"When have you produced the data that you relied on and that this FDA relied on to change those parameters? You did it behind doors," Hassan pressed.
"You're just making stuff up, senator," Kennedy replied.
Hassan noted that nothing she said was made up, adding: "Sometimes when you make an accusation, it's kind of a confession, Mr. Kennedy."
“A charlatan”
Beyond COVID-19 vaccines, lawmakers criticized Kennedy's anti-vaccine moves generally. Sen. John Barrasso (R-Wyo.), a physician and supporter of vaccination, began his comments by noting that George Washington ordered his troops to be vaccinated against smallpox during the Revolutionary War, allowing the nation to continue fighting and win its independence.
"I'm a doctor; vaccines work," Barrasso said. "Secretary Kennedy, in your confirmation hearings, you promised to uphold the highest standards for vaccines. Since then, I've grown deeply concerned." He cited the measles outbreak, the firing of the CDC director, and the attack by the administration on mRNA vaccine technology.
Sen. Maria Cantwell (D-Wash.) took particular aim at Kennedy's unilateral decision to cancel $500 million in funding for mRNA vaccine research, which was intended to prepare the country for future pandemic viruses. The funding cancellation was widely decried by scientific and public health experts.
"You've made a statement here today in your testimony that you would follow science, and yet you're not following science," Cantwell said.
"You're so wrong on your facts," Kennedy replied.
"You're a charlatan. That's what you are," Cantwell shot back.
